My Tournament

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Re: My Tournament

Post  LunchPolice on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:46 am

Syrias wrote:really long post

Okay, fair enough. Guess I should expand on my character profile. BTW, having the real PL numbers
from the show would be really annoying. Will we use much lower numbers or keep millions of 0s?
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Syrias on Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:45 am

i dont see what so bas about having 150.000.000 as opposed to a streamlined 150, if it means the same. the bigger numbers actually would allow for better calculations.

say you use 150 as a marker for 150 million PL but a certain skill only costs you about 1000 Ki energy (with Ki=PL) in a one time use. how would you substract that 1000 from your 150? with 150.000.000 it would easily be done.

this example might even show what i mean by numbers and measurements for skills.

lets say goku powers up to ssj1 (namek, first time version)

his PL(ki): 150.000.000
drain from the transformation every minute: 1.000 PL(ki)
Normal Kamehameha: Cost(ki): 10.000 Effect: 10.000 Damage on hit, pushes enemy back
Super Kamehameha: Cost(ki): 100.000 Effect: 100.000 Damage on hit, pushes enemy back
Solar Flare: Cost(ki) 100 Effect: possibly blinds opponent for a few seconds....

if every character has a list like that, whit certain drain/cost applied to all skills and so on, the users actually can use those numbers to write up the fights. otherwise it would simply be "i write a fan fic and ill be damned if i give the character that is opposing my character any chance at all". with the numbers present for everyone to see, every writer is kinda forced to get creative in describing how his character still wins.

users are still open to create skills of their own, but those would need to be judged by the jury on their properties.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Docter KillJoy on Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:35 am

the 2 characters i submitted

medea is as strong as #18
rosash is as strong as piccolo was during the buu saga


i have no idea what the power levels would be in numbers though. because well numbers became irrelevant after freeza

looking on a random power level site. http://www.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Info/Dragonball-Z-PowerLevels.htm

for #18 (during cell saga) her power level is supposedly - 35,000,000
for piccolo (during buu saga) power level is supposedly - 180,000,000

anyone have a more accurate site ? Very Happy
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:22 am

Is this still going? lol
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Docter KillJoy on Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:20 pm

it's your tournament Razz
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Re: My Tournament

Post  LunchPolice on Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:25 pm

How are we meant to do that Power Level thing if Power Levels are debatable after Frieza?
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:49 pm

You should pick a character and use them as a base, making their power equal to 1. Then set other characters' power levels in accordance with that character's power. For example, if Freeza is 1, and Kaioshin is roughly five times stronger than Freeza, Kaioshin's power level would be approximately 5 Freezas.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:52 am

we'll use raditzes lol
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:48 am

scouter reading?

saiyan saga: goku 330 (weighted clothes). 440 (without weighted clothes)
piccolo: 320 (weighted clothes) 430 (without weighted clothes)
krillin: 206
master rochi: 139
turtle: 00000.00000.0001%
Razz
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:19 am

The problem with scouter readings is that they vanish completely after the Namek Saga, making the exact power levels of characters after that nothing but speculation (despite what some people will claim). Which is why I suggested creating a new system using a character as a base. While the exact power of said character is unknown, people would be able to state exactly where their character stands in relation to the other character's power. Personally, I'd like to nominate base Goku as the standard unit.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:44 pm

the last real number we all know

is ssj goku at 150 milion and freeza 100% at 120 milion.
after that the power levels became retarded.

for example ascended saiyan and ultra super saiyan (ssj second and third grade) what is their multiplier if ssj2 is x2 ontop of the x50?
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:01 pm

I like to think ASSJ1 and USSJ1 are actually 75 and 100 time the users base respectively with the form suffering from major flaws and often a lack of SSJ1 mastery from the user. while Suspect Cell claimed USSJ1 Trunks had or was using more power than himself.

note: my personal preference for brolly is that his long and lanky body's build inherently mitigates the flaws of ASSJ1/USSJ1 and his father's controlling crown [by suppressing his transformation] inadvertently caused his mastery of SSJ1. imho LSSJ1 would be the ideal use of these SSJ1 grades, perhaps as a fourth grade.

Disclaimer Rolling Eyes I would NOT expect this to be considered canon by others Sad
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:27 pm

ascended saiyan (what vegeta used) bulked up the muscles. but not huge.
speed didn't go down. energy drain was larger though

ultra super saiyan (what trunks used) bulked up the muscles huge. more he powerd up, slower he became.
energy drain was even larger.

Lssj, caused broly to not only bulk up but also increase in size. his ki constantly rises at a steady pace. he does not become slower. he actualy becomes stronger and faster.
his problem of couse remains he lacks martial arts skills. and relies on brute strenght and wresteling moves.

in the flash backs paragas had, broly as a child already apparantly reached the level of super saiyan.
some do say broly's ever increasing ki is infinite but this wasn't the case yet in movie 8.

at certain points he had to release large amounts of ki through ki blasts, his aura etc.
he didn't seem botherd by this in movie 10. so either he overcame the limitation or the zenkai he got just increased his treshhold and he didn't get the time in the movie to reach that again.

When i first saw the broly movies, i always though his Lssj form was a sort of ultra super saiyan 2. set between ssj2 and 3.
but later i realised this was wrong, because then he should have destroyed the z-fighters within seconds, plotarmor or not

.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:55 pm

hmm... sorry my initial post was developed from an off topic line of discussion. As a peace offering I will write a OC team for a future DBM tournament.

U#??

This universe diverged after freiza's defeat when the nameks wished back "the good people who were killed by Freiza's forces" resulting in Vegeta not returning nor the villages he destroyed. Later, after Tien and Chaosu were wished back, Guru strengthened the namek DBs and wished that the strongest warriors who died on Namek would reincarnated as Namekian warriors and the return of those Nameks killed by Vegeta. only one of the wishes could be granted. Once on new Namek he spit out 7 eggs; these were the reincarnation of the Ginyu force [minus Guildo], Dodoria, Zarbon, and Vegeta.

These 7 were named after musical instruments and favored there past selves in appearance.
Ginyu=Gui-ta [Guitar] note: Guildo would have been Güiro
Burter= Ban-jo
Jeice= Jin-gu [Jinghu] or Jo-za for possible fusion with banjo
Recoome= Re-ceb [play on Rebec]
Dodoria= Dabu-dahu [play on double bass & dàhú]
Zarbon= Zan-gu [Zhonghu]
Vegeta= Vi-lo-ta [Violotta: tenor Violin]

These warrior nameks, much like piccolo jr, grew to surpass their original counterparts over a relatively short time period. the namek Ginyu and Vegeta were natural rivals, and Vegeta's reincarnate was clearly the stronger, however Ginyu was backed by his fellow warriors. Having heard of their past selves, and a want to grow stronger, Vilota wished to remember all his past combat experiences as the sayajin prince. The haunting memories awakened evil potential with in the warrior namek, with the capacity of both good and evil he had become a super namek. But this was not enough; with in Vegeta's memories of war, He could see his defeats at the hands of Freeza and Kakarot, and even his own death. The natural strengths of a sayajin became quite desirable, and realizing his strength had already grown he desired to fight Goku on a level playing field again.

Thinking the others would now follow him, he made his next wish for these warrior nameks to inherit the innate abilities of his former race. It was then that Gui-ta mortally wounded him. Vilota's rage flared in a requiem of power at the betrayal. A zenkai acquired and the Super Namekian's aura flared from a glistering violet to a violent gold as he regenerated the damage to his body. With a sinister smile seen all the way to his cyan eyes he blasted his false rival [Guita] intent of facing his true one [Goku] and warned the others not to follow less they share his fate.

As Vilota left new namek, the remaining namek warriors tended to Guita whose power also increased upon recovery... awaking he whispered "his evil has to be stopped, no mater the cost" before leaving they made a reluctant 3rd wish...

study well this Vilota arrived on earth to find two androids and no Goku [with no Vegeta to have Trunks come back] Vilota and Piccolo team up, and train in RoSaT were they defeat the two weaker androids of Trunks time line without piccolo needing to Fuse with Kami...

Without retelling all of DBZ from the changes above... I would like to add Violin the violent super warrior namek and son of Vilota. his moves are inspired mostly by his father's memories and his own creativity.

Orchestra's Overture= his barrage of big bang like attacks [think semi-P.Cell's B.B.Crash or Trunk's Burning Storm]
Dirge of Destruction= his one handed garlic gun [think Majin vegeta's atomic blast]
Requiem of Rage= Hellzone Kienzan!!!
Sonnet of Sayajins= his Power up.. looks like power up for garlic gun with yellow sparks, sunspots, and purple corona effect.
Sound of Silence= a Final Flash which also ends his Power up.

also uses basic warrior namek attacks and regen.

Power comparable to SSJ2 of Cell saga Gohan and Buu saga Goku
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Re: My Tournament

Post  LunchPolice on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:50 am

Hyp3rB14d3 wrote:The problem with scouter readings is that they vanish completely after the Namek Saga, making the exact power levels of characters after that nothing but speculation (despite what some people will claim). Which is why I suggested creating a new system using a character as a base. While the exact power of said character is unknown, people would be able to state exactly where their character stands in relation to the other character's power. Personally, I'd like to nominate base Goku as the standard unit.

I support this idea. Smile

And cool character, Pikuhan vs Piccolo.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:58 am

Thx Lunch Police.

I'ld like to also offer up a concept fusion of Yamcha and Tien based on the game BT3 moves sets
1st lets say this Yamcha is between 80-60% of Tien's pwr [ie actually trained hard]

Base Tiencha: [about 2 to 2.5 times Yamcha's power]
B1: Kaioken [bursts of x5, x10, x20]
B1: Super unyielding spirit [Tien going all out with boost to B2 & UB]
B2: Tri-Beam [Tien's]
B2: Spirit Ball [Yamcha's UB]
UB: 4 armed Dodan barrage [ala freeza's crazy finger beam]

Super Tiencha: sustained KKx20, and Roshi's 50% Max Power mode [about 50-75 times Yamcha's power]
B1: Solar Flare [Tien's actual B1]
B1: Pwr-Up to Very Limit [Yamcha's actual B1]
B2: Dodan barrage [ala freeza's death beam barrage]
B2: 1H Spirit Bomb [early Goku UB]
UB: Wolf-Cran-Turtle [4 stage combination attack: WFF launches, 3x4 eyes follows, 3 flanking Tri-Beams, 1 kame hame ha from above ]

If Fussions are completely out of the running... how about a son from a crack parring between Zangya and Krillin or Tien? [Krillin already has as #18 so Zangya could move on to the stronger bald warrior]

---
hmm... if base goku were the standard unit... would it be relative to each saga?

ie. 23rd tournament - End of Buu Saga Base Goku is likely a constant.
... but Cell Saga Base Goku should be noticeably lower.
... while Android Saga Base Goku would be even less.
... and Freeza Saga Base Goku would be the highest known base for Goku using a scouter.

i'm not against the idea just yet, but it seems most of the later saga's PLs could be estimated relative to Goku's progression and fixed multiples for SSJ1, SSJ2, & SSJ3.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Syrias on Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:03 am

if this abstract system is used (goku levels), count me out. i want actual power levels, akin to the scouter stuff. i want them calculated for people after the freeza arc. thats the only way to measure the attacks in a useful way (like being able to say: kamehameha(normal) costs X ki and does X damage (unless the target shields itself with ki) and those values are substracted from the power level of the user/target (ki being the power level)). if we simply say "the character is 500 base gokus strong and has the following set of moves, without actually having numbers for moves and such, people can just run amok when writing the fights. and that sucks, imo. i actually would even love for numbers pertaining resistance certain materials have towards being destructed. (like 1 point of ki in a kamehameha can drill 10cm deep into concrete but only 1mm deep into katchin or similar). while i hate math and numbers, i feel its the only way to make the writing up of matches actually fair, with the writer having to consider the very possible defeat of his own character if the other character vastly over powers him. also this would stop "pulling new moves out of thin air and thus winning" since all moves of the character, with ki values, would have to be calculated beforehand.


i dont want this thing to be "lets all run wild and write up stories and who cares if we go out of hand and it becomes completely unbelievable".



anyway... PvP, your character could actually be Tienchas son. nobody ever explored the possibility of a fusion character banging a girl and getting her pregnant. so many possibilities.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Docter KillJoy on Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:18 am

well there is always lunch/launch. she was tien's (sort of) girlfriend
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:44 am

I'm for actual PL too, just didn't want to shut out the other option if it was workable.

we could set the tournament into story arc PL tiers. so relatively similar PL fighters would face off 1st.

ie
DBM saga tier would be anyone stronger than DBZ Vegetto [note: DBM Goku probably counts]
Buu saga tier would be anyone from Majin Vegeta to Vegetto
Cell saga tier would be anyone from Super Vegeta to Super Perfect Cell
Android saga tier would be anyone from King Cold to Semi Perfect Cell
Namek saga tier would be anyone from Cuicui to Freiza

as for other Alt Universe contenders...
1. Garlic jr beats Piccolo... Garlic III is a better warrior than his father and made use of the technologies the humans had and a particular chip left over from one of his father's many foes... integrating these technologies into an exo suit forged with metal refined from the makyo star [their earth's new moon] Mecha Garlic III is a force to be reckoned with. ie RR's Android tech, Mecha Cooler's Cyber Chip, and refined Makyo Star ore.

2. Goku excepted being the new Kami... but when he goes off to train, Gohan is taken and raised by Piccolo who traps old Kami and takes Gohan to namek. Goku returns too late to save his son and is badly beaten by Vegeta who leaves to Namek... During the buu saga a majin Piccolo and majin Gohan [both were below Cell here] return to make short work of Dabura and Babidi after acquiring their seals. Goku returns to assist Kaioshin much as Gohan did before [and is similarly powered to that Gohan] is soundly defeated by buu, and trains with the Z-sword. Breaking the Z-sword, Goku gains the elder kaioshin's Pwr-Up and life. Mean while Piccolo and Gohan assist in forming super buu who is out of there control. Goku makes short work of Super Buu as Piccolo an Gohan trounce Shorts and Goten. yada yada... Gohan and Goten reluctantly use fusion dance to defeat buuku after buucolo had a lengthy fight the renewed Kami. kid buu is wished back as a human, the son family somehow reconcile...

Summary to their 10years after buu arc: Gohan was raised by the super namek Piccolo as his somewhat evil heir on namek; Goten was raised on look out tower to be the next Kami after his father who was dead for 7yrs; Shorts and bra [yamcha and bulma's kids] use android enhancements for fight and flight. Majuub was recruited early becomes the elite warrior for the supreme kai [with a fixed Z-sword and elder Pwr-up] and wants a rematch with Kami Goku who plans to step down if Goten [who he eventually trains] or Gohan [who he does not] is ready to take over.
note: this goku, should be much weaker than U18 goku...

3. In a universe without Goku, Bojack is freed much later. When Bojack's forces were finished many people were killed. Due to the wording of the wish everyone killed that day by Bojack and his forces were brought back to life... including Zangya! When the buu saga happened [Zangya gets the majin seal] Krillin used max power and his Kaioken to remove the Z sword. In his training the Z sword was broken and he received the elder Kai's Pwr-Up. Tien and Yamcha rather than being powered up were fussed with the Patora earrings into Tiencha. While Krillin kept both a fat and skinny buu occupied, Tiencha used the RoSaT to train with an unexpected sparing partner... Zangya! They managed to severely damage the skinny buu, and decided the fat buu was good, so when he tried to absorb the other buu Tiencha got in the way. while inside they were separated again by magic. fat buu was touched and decided to sacrifice himself to defeat the skinny buu after they escaped... as fat buu [who copies attacks] used a full power tri beam, Krillin focused a world spirit bomb into himself to fuel a max pwr Kamehameha. skinny buu was destroyed between the two blasts as the kamehameha over powered the fat buu's beam destroying him as well. Zangya has a son soon after named Tengya [ten= heaven; gyaku= opposite].
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:44 am

Syrias wrote: if this abstract system is used (goku levels), count me out. i want actual power levels, akin to the scouter stuff. i want them calculated for people after the freeza arc.
Yes. We would all like that. The problem is that that isn't possible. All power levels after the Freeza arc are educated (or in some cases, not so educated) guesses.
Syrias wrote: thats the only way to measure the attacks in a useful way (like being able to say: kamehameha(normal) costs X ki and does X damage (unless the target shields itself with ki) and those values are substracted from the power level of the user/target (ki being the power level)). if we simply say "the character is 500 base gokus strong and has the following set of moves, without actually having numbers for moves and such, people can just run amok when writing the fights.
The idea was that everyone measures from the same base. If everyone is using the same base, it works just as well as a scouter reading. That said, you have a point about needing to keep track of ki. As such, I'm going to rethink the whole Gokus system and see if I can't come up with something more feasible.
Syrias wrote: and that sucks, imo. i actually would even love for numbers pertaining resistance certain materials have towards being destructed. (like 1 point of ki in a kamehameha can drill 10cm deep into concrete but only 1mm deep into katchin or similar). while i hate math and numbers, i feel its the only way to make the writing up of matches actually fair, with the writer having to consider the very possible defeat of his own character if the other character vastly over powers him. also this would stop "pulling new moves out of thin air and thus winning" since all moves of the character, with ki values, would have to be calculated beforehand.
You have a point. However, you're asking for a degree of accuracy that's impossible for people to realistically calculate.

For the moment, lets forget about using Gokus as a power unit and see if we can't pool our ideas to come up with something better.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Syrias on Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:02 am

its not impossible, hyper. its simply a lot of work.

we (or i) could calculate a "realistic growth" for goku alone, going by his canon PL of 3 Million (150 Million SSJ) from the freeza arc. up to him becoming Vegetto, using the dreaded "Vegeta X Goku" Formula.

Hm.. okay so we would need to calculate vegeta too. but thats practically it. the two are enough to base the power levels off of.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Rage on Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:06 pm

I lolled os hard at the first post of the thread
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Syrias on Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:19 am

why?
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Rage on Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:48 am

Well actually the second comment.
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Re: My Tournament

Post  Syrias on Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:52 am

which is even less funny (compared to a post that wasnt funny in the least to begin with).

my question still stands. why did you laugh about it?
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Re: My Tournament

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