Specials

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Re: Specials

Post  Syrias on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:58 pm

Ussj Future Trunks wrote:actually im not. i just dislike what you like. is that such a problem?

look, the trunks special sucked but not because it had no action. it had potential for other things. also there are episodes full of dialogue and drama but you are thinking dbz is shallow. for example, entire episodes are dedicated to vegetas emotions, or driving lesson comedy. or filler flashbacks. all those episodes in the 10 day wait. no action, just tension, humour and developments. gohan's training episodes. like the robot episode. no action, just gohan growing as a character. salagir has potential to grow beyond the stereotype your trying to set. how about the whole saiyaman arc? not really any real fights, but its character and humour. gt a hero's legacy. no real action but the drama is there and quite well done imo. how about trunks's time? its not about fighting the androids. its about life in a world where your scared and running away all the time from two unstoppable monsters.

am i getting the point across yet?

*facepalm* as i said before, comedic relief and such is fine and part of dbz. making family drama the main focus is not. also you dont have get any point across. i know what you want. i just dont want it and i try to explain to you what i dislike about it. you can not close your eyes and make DBZ something it is not. DBZ IS shallow. its a show meant for entertainment based on fighting progresively stronger bad guys. its not meant as a social study on people having their loved ones die or something.

of course it has character development. thats what i mean by coherent story. but most of the emotions in the series either directly or indirectly relate to the main focus of the show, which is FIGHTING. i love DBZ, otherwise i wouldnt be here. but still i can see its a shallow show. youre glorifying the trunks special far too much. it just shows (with strong emotions, thats true) gohan fighting in futility and trunks witnessing his death. nothing more. it does not go indepth on how it is to live in the post apocalyptic world. its just character development for future trunks. nothing more. for any more than that its far to short and shallow. but to me, it still did not suck at all.


so no dbm doesnt have to be just fights.

yes it does. thats the whole premise of it being the "fights, fans always dreamed about". of course it willl have comedic relief and emotional pull. it already has those with pan dying or dabura NOT dying. but its main focus is still just the fighting.


the character interactions should be just as important. the fans are fickle lol. they complain about too long fights. they complain about drama (pan's death. tell me that wasnt sad and dramatic and added to the story.) and long winded dialogue. they complain some more when they want the next fight to be announced. they complain that its all fights and no story. what the hell do you people want? thats what salagir must overcome. he seems like a storyteller as well as a fight writer. the specials shouldnt be about the fights imo. we know who wins. what im interested in is the characters and how everything came to be how it is in dbm.

see, here we agree somewhat. you just overdo it in your thinking that the characters are actually unique and special. look at any kind of shonen and you find your vegeta, gohan and all those personalities in there. DBZ is not some sacred special thing. still, the character is important. but on the other hand, salagir already stated "u16 people accepted vegetto completely." so we already know how their development turns out. how is it now that you value character over the fights, if we already know the outcome for both? makes noe sense Very Happy

in this vein, u16 offers something for those wanting more than just fights. humour. drama. character interaction. dbz style of course. also maybe an intense spar between vegetto and bra to satisfy fans like you.

the thing is, im not that interested in the non serious fights which mean nothing. and i dont want to read a depressing story about chichi needing years to accept goku not coming back ever. sad stuff in DBZ always was handled cheaply in a throwaway manner. ohohoh were all so sad, oh goku wins/is back. all is happy again and we never talk about the dark times. future trunks totally loving u18 and never ever thinking about his poor mother all alone in his own time. yay for super well done drama. drama is just not dbz. and as such ich should not be DBM. a little on the side, for filler, sure. but not as a main focus.

what about minor guys like the villains in the jump special? aka or whatever?

i assumed trunks actually saying his presence causing reality to shift explained 19 and 16. if cell existed then why wasnt 19 finished and sent out before 17 and 18 like in the normal timeline?

again, dbz canon has nothing happening after buu and as such there is nothing for u16 to happen. #19 was killed by vegeta in both time lines. thats why trunks never saw him. 18 and 17 beat all the others and then went after the survivors gohan and trunks later on. thats how it happenend. trunks alters the timelines future, not the present.

isnt it narrow minded to think that u16 villains MUST show up in other universes? do we know they didnt? i just think vegetto had a butterfly effect a little bigger than buu/cell/frieza winning. it would be cool and interesting. theres no real way of knowing his presence doesnt spawn new enemies.

no its not narrow minded. its just illogical to assume that vegetto somehow conjures up new bigger enemies for no reason. it being cool and interesting is not enough to justify it. goku once thought he was the reason evil came to earth and so he opted to stay dead. years later dabura babidi and buu came, proving him wrong. stuff just happens and there is no butterfly effect, since that only concerns time travel. trunks created a sort of butterfly effect but only in causing a new timeline. butterfly effect and alternate timelines actually cancel each other out. since buterfly effect has only one timeline that is effected by the b effect. back and forth. like the movie Very Happy. if u16 has new villains, they have the have shown up in other universes as well. since all universes had the same baddies. only the big change often resulted in some of them either being weaker or not being there at all. in no case has the big change created new villains in an universe that is otherwise unchanged. it simply does not work out to include u16 exclusive baddies, unless vegetto specifically wished for them. he is the new supreme kai of his universe after all (salagir said something to that effect). and i dont think thats something he would do. he isnt that reckless.

lol its dbz. for all we know the villain that shows up only wants to fight vegetto (so strong he bends reality maybe). and in u18 there is no vegetto so why why this guy come to earth? maybe zen buu fought this guy. maybe he showed up everywhere but u18 because something happened in u18 that prevents his existence. like salagir says. one big change. i dont know. just throwing that out there.

one big change means there is ONLY one big change. nothing more. just that one change and the universe unfolding from that change. u16 big change is vegetto. i dont see how vegetto being there could result in a strong foe. and other universes cant contain that foe who just never comes to earth, since the varga would seek out that guy first in ALL universes, if he can rival vegetto. its that simple.

sorry if im being a stubborn asshole.

hey if youre an stubborn asshole, im one too Very Happy nothing wrong with standing your ground. thats something i learned from DBZ. standing your ground is never wrong.

its your call, shall we continue this or just agree to disagree? we could shift to discussing ideas on what u13 should consist of in its special Very Happy
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Re: Specials

Post  Rage on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:26 pm

Honestly I want to see the special about the nanotech guys.
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Re: Specials

Post  Syrias on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:29 pm

Rage wrote:Honestly I want to see the special about the nanotech guys.

true. while i dont want drama, i want to know where they are from and what they did in their universe.

i suspect its tuffles (truffles? the guys from planet plant who got wiped out by the saiyans.).

the whole reliance on high tech makes me think so.
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Re: Specials

Post  Rage on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:31 pm

Well it's true that if its about tech you might think of the Tuffles right away, but it might alos be human tech that has evolved way beyond the one from our world or that of the Capsule Corp.
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Re: Specials

Post  Docter KillJoy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:32 pm

i have to agree with syrias. u16 doesn't offer anything special to warrant a special lol!

super saiyans universe, super namek and freeza's empire universe are both better versions to have a special about.
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Re: Specials

Post  Syrias on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:39 pm

Docter KillJoy wrote:i have to agree with syrias.

you sure about that? did you read all i wrote on that matter? Very Happy

if so, thanks for agreeing with me Very Happy
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Re: Specials

Post  Stick on Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:18 pm

How bout no specials altogether? Just a thought....
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Re: Specials

Post  Leon on Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:20 pm

specials are required to give Salagir time to work ahead.

The alternative is nothing posted at all, which if that's your chosen option is easy enough to mimic by taking a break for a few weeks.
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Re: Specials

Post  Stick on Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:25 pm

STOP: wrong, specials aren't required but merely are an option.

I personally would prefer Salagir coming out and saying they're going to need time off for the next chapter instead of diverting a series of specials that come off as highlighting a paranoid fear of losing popularity.....
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Re: Specials

Post  Leon on Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:48 pm

I don't think you quite understand.

Special = some back story on other universes that is posted up while Salagir is taking time off.
If you don't want to read the specials, take a break during that time.
Taking this break will, to you, be the same as not having a DBM update for the same period of time.
Thus, those that want to read it can
and those that don't want to don't.

So both sides get what they want. Just because material is posted doesn't mean your obligated to read it. That's like if I show is on winter break, instead of doing re-runs or some other show in its place, the station owners just leave the screen black during that time period.
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Re: Specials

Post  Buster on Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:25 am

See, here's the thing. I feel like some of the specials are worthwhile in terms of background information to some of the characters, and others seem mainly useless to us Z-educated readers.
Examples:
Trunks' special was good background on a what was a major character that we haven't seen in many, many years. IMO, what happened in Trunks' future timeline would be very interesting. Already, we saw the revival of 16, and I feel that there's *maybe* more that wasn't even touched upon (perhaps Buu? Although I guess that's unlikely given what he said about rebuilding Earth...). The drawing may have been pretty obtuse (check out those arms!), but I was glad to see what happened to one of my favorite characters.
Broly specials are the opposite. We see characters and outcomes that we already know, and nothing overall is added to the depth of the multiverse. We've all seen the movies, and we know what happened. These specials just seem to beat it into the ground ("yeah, Broly's pretty strong, isn't he?"). To the plot of DBM, it adds nothing, and I think it might be a good assumption that Broly's time in the comic has come to a close. It's as Geno said in the comments, Broly's a weak plot device.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would like to see more of some of the universes backgrounds (like the Super Saiyans and maybe the Super Namek... not U16 though), but stay away from the bread and potatoes of Z that we already know. Like, I would hate to see Bojack rehashed in a special... that would seem pretty pointless.

Meh, I'm ready for the mainstream story to pick up again.
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Re: Specials

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:43 am

Buster wrote:See, here's the thing. I feel like some of the specials are worthwhile in terms of background information to some of the characters, and others seem mainly useless to us Z-educated readers.
Examples:
Trunks' special was good background on a what was a major character that we haven't seen in many, many years. IMO, what happened in Trunks' future timeline would be very interesting. Already, we saw the revival of 16, and I feel that there's *maybe* more that wasn't even touched upon (perhaps Buu? Although I guess that's unlikely given what he said about rebuilding Earth...). The drawing may have been pretty obtuse (check out those arms!), but I was glad to see what happened to one of my favorite characters.
Broly specials are the opposite. We see characters and outcomes that we already know, and nothing overall is added to the depth of the multiverse. We've all seen the movies, and we know what happened. These specials just seem to beat it into the ground ("yeah, Broly's pretty strong, isn't he?"). To the plot of DBM, it adds nothing, and I think it might be a good assumption that Broly's time in the comic has come to a close. It's as Geno said in the comments, Broly's a weak plot device.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would like to see more of some of the universes backgrounds (like the Super Saiyans and maybe the Super Namek... not U16 though), but stay away from the bread and potatoes of Z that we already know. Like, I would hate to see Bojack rehashed in a special... that would seem pretty pointless.

Meh, I'm ready for the mainstream story to pick up again.
I'm of the opposite opinion. I actually liked the Brolly specials (although not as much as the main comic) and found the Trunks one to be rather disappointing. It was pretty predictable from start to finish, had no fight scenes, and could have been thoroughly explained in a single page of dialogue. At least the Brolly specials had surprises in them (Oolong imitating Paragus, Gohan distracting Brolly while Goku formed a spirit bomb, Vegeta taking Brolly head-on in his SSJ form, Gohan's brief advantage in SSJ2) and good fight scenes. That said, I've enjoyed all the specials more than if the comic simply stopped, and the three updates a week schedule is 50% better than the two updates a week that the comic was doing when I started reading it.
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Re: Specials

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:39 am

sigh....you people are fickle. you want fights but you dont want too much fights. you want character but not too much character. you want story but then you want fights again.

salagir obviously does have something planned for the U16 special. and i for one care about bra and pan's lives and a little bit of their relationship, just to deepen the emotion of pan's death. doesnt need to be long but U16 is pretty much the main universe. they deserve a special way more than super namek. super namek i want to stay a mystery. but if u16 is as uneventful as you think, then the special wont be very long will it? im sure you can sit through it.

it may show the "dream fights" but its also about the universal backgrounds. look they devoted an entire chapter to "broly beating everyone up". dont you think something like U16 deserves longer since broly is one of the shallowest characters in dragonball? look how many pages was devoted to "pan dying and people reacting". people were like "get to the next fight already". then when they do get to vegetto vs broly, they are like "show some reactions and dialogue already". salagir DOES NOT have to be limited by the dbz stereotypes.

it does make sense. we know who will win in a fight between broly and z fighters. but we dont know much about bra and the training. look how the anime devoted an episode to vegeta explaining how he did it. entire episodes of training more exciting than the biggest super saiyan fights. we differ on what we find exciting. so thats ok. lets leave that there.

for the last time, im not talking about "chichi crying about goku leaving her". im talking about more happy and important to dbm interaction, like bra and pan's friendship.

and i mentioned the fact that vegetto being so strong bent reality and maybe birthed something similar to janemba. doesnt have to rival vegetto. but we would get an opportunity to see gohan/gotenks/bra/pan fight. either one. even if theres no tension it would be epic to see underrated people like gotenks and pan owning. since pan is dead so fast, i want way more of her in the special. but anyway. thats my thoughts on that.

as for U13, i think we should see young kakarot fighting roshi and piccolo. then the whole fight with frieza. i guess vegeta got angry at the loss of his people, as well as angry at himself for being weak. since theres no goku to make him believe hes not the super saiyan, it would be easier. i dont know. but i do want to see ssj vegeta vs 100% frieza. and if they fought anyone else, like cooler afterwards.


@rage me too. i really think they are tuffle/saiyan hybrids. i think a few of them actually specialise in hand to hand with swords and whatnot. a couple of them looked really buff. i bet supreme kai killed frieza in that universe too.

the Trunks one to be rather disappointing. It was pretty predictable from start to finish, had no fight scenes, and could have been thoroughly explained in a single page of dialogue.
it was lol. when trunks first appeared, he told us all we needed to know to U18 gohan. it didnt need fight scenes. theres no one left to fight. i want to see 16 helping rebuild the world and how the survivors view trunks (savior? mysterious kid?) the trunks special was just weak for other reasons than bad art. NOTHING HAPPENED. trunks finds and rebuilds 16. we know.

bojack is going to interesting as i want to see him actually kill gohan (im a sadist Twisted Evil ) and where kat's group came from. where did she learn afterimage? how does she know kakarot already?

broly is so uninteresting to begin with that i only am reading them to see vegeta be the hero/changes to movie 10. unfortunately, goku is gonna stick his head in and steal vegeta's moment yet again, while contradicting canon big time.
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Re: Specials

Post  Docter KillJoy on Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:32 am

and u16 bra isn't. she's as much a mary sue as broly is in db:m! just because you got wet dreams about her (just kidding Razz) doesn't mean everyone has to think she is awesome and continue using the same cheap reason for her power: hurr duurrr vegetto's daughter. she must be able to kick everyone's ass derp.


and i can't believe people actualy think bojack is anything special. he is nothing more then a cheap (and weaker) broly knock off. that needed his power up form to even handle a super saiyan.
while broly waltz all over super saiyans.
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Re: Specials

Post  Mrperson0 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:47 am

Docter KillJoy wrote:
while broly waltz all over super saiyans.

By using his second power up form. Razz
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Re: Specials

Post  Docter KillJoy on Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:41 pm

in movie 10 as a super saiyan he still beat the crap out of 2 super saiyans Razz

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Re: Specials

Post  Mrperson0 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:47 pm

You mean two kids who were probably (definitely?) weaker than their fathers in the Android saga? XD
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Re: Specials

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:10 am

and u16 bra isn't. she's as much a mary sue as broly is in db:m! just because you got wet dreams about her (just kidding ) doesn't mean everyone has to think she is awesome and continue using the same cheap reason for her power: hurr duurrr vegetto's daughter. she must be able to kick everyone's ass derp.

you still sticking to that when theres alot more evidence? how about gohan had to power up to get ready for bra to "blow off steam". that vegetto used ssj on her during training. that she knows IT (proof of strenous hard mental training). an estimated 10 YEARS training (twice as much as gohan did in his whole life) and of course "half saiyans are godly strong".

i want to see the whole deal with kat's group. not that interested in bojack. hes like "yarr im a space pirate and im evil...and stuff". his henchmen are way cooler like zangya and gokua. where the hell is gokua in U6 D:

and yeah didnt broly face only super saiyans whereas it took ssj2 kid gohan to kill bojack? hmm silent
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Re: Specials

Post  Docter KillJoy on Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:07 am

gohan was ssj2 in movie 10 also. i don't care if the sparks where missing.

------

kat's group is interesting,there from bojacks universe. but they obviously hate them, why allowed them to live in the first place.
the tall bald one with the beard is also missing. but then again those 2 where the 2 weakest one's
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Re: Specials

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:12 am

we have no way of knowing that. i personally think zangya was the weakest and bido? i think? is the strongest. gokua was taken out really easily by ssj trunks but zangya and bujin took on ssj gohan.

bojack did say they were annoying and was going to kill them when they returned to their universe. i guess they are the elite fighters of whoever is still alive in U6 since bojack killed all the strong ones.
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Re: Specials

Post  Docter KillJoy on Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:15 am

zangya fought evenly with ssj gohan.

i hardly consider kat's group elite, they aren't weak compared to normal humans. but if emitting pheromones is there only real power they hardly qualify as fighters.
perhaps they belong to bojacks harem
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Re: Specials

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:28 am

she had help. they basically ganged up on him.

i said they were the elites of who was left. hence why the vargas took them along.

kat was able to use after image and knew who kakarot was.
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Re: Specials

Post  Docter KillJoy on Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:36 am

reading their fight again. i don't see any proof, that she knows him.

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Re: Specials

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:39 am

"him....ill have to use all my powers"

page 99.
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Re: Specials

Post  Mrperson0 on Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:44 am

Docter KillJoy wrote:gohan was ssj2 in movie 10 also. i don't care if the sparks where missing.

------

kat's group is interesting,there from bojacks universe. but they obviously hate them, why allowed them to live in the first place.
the tall bald one with the beard is also missing. but then again those 2 where the 2 weakest one's

Yeah, I agree. I highly doubt SSJ Gohan could take on LSSJ Broly at that time.


@ USSJ Future Trunks
""him....ill have to use all my powers"

page 99. "

Maybe because she saw how Goku decimated the saiyan in his fight? XD
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