Fanboys

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Re: Fanboys

Post  Leon on Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:56 pm

Nah. I think you should stop being mentally challenged.

Fact: Toriyama -flat out stated- he considers it a side story to DBZ cannon.

Fact: The only hands on DB work Toriyama has done since is DBO, which completely disregards GT.

Fact: There is -no- such thing as Anime cannon where manga is concerned. You're either a Manga purist, or you pick and choose what you want to be "cannon" to you out of the available material. The reason "cannon" is relevant is because while all of us have our own interpretations of what an artistic work is, "cannon" is the facts, or the world within the artist's mind. Hence why debates are usually held within the "cannon" of the universe. You can't really have a debate between people that pick and choose which parts the consider true, but you can argue what was the intention with points of a series that are left vague.

For example, if it was flat out stated by Toriyama that Gohan was SSj2 against Dabura in the Manga, and Toei admitted he was SSj1 in the Anime, it wouldn't be you're silly notion of "manga cannon" vs "anime cannon" it would be "cannon" vs. "slip up."
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:18 am

1. i dont care what he said. its canon to the anime and he didnt make the anime now did he?
2. how the hell am i a manga purist? makes no sense.
"all of us have our own interpretations"
then why call me mentally challenged?
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Leon on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:25 am

The fact that you misunderstand what I said and can't grasp the concepts I presented pretty clearly illustrate why I made the statement that I did.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:53 am

Why are you two even arguing about this? GT isn't cannon to DBM. That's all that really matters here, what with this being a Dragonball Multiverse forum.

Edit: For the record, though, Toriyama may not have made the anime, but he did work closely with the creators of it. Not so with GT.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:31 am

work closely? all he did was made some sketches, nothing more. he was sick and tired of dbz during the buu saga already.
hell probaly the only reason why he made those sketches and idea's was probaly because they paid him alot of money.


@ussj future trunks, there loads of things in the anime that contradict or change things happend in the manga.
manga = true canon.

just accept that gt will always remain nothing more then a bad idea made by a bunch of greedy studio dorks (toei)
heck even the movies are more canon then gt.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:16 am

and why would i do that? but Hyp3rB14d3's right. this isnt the place.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Mrperson0 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:51 am

Ussj Future Trunks wrote:did they rage the fuck out when pan died? i think not.

...I was talking about between them. Goten and Trunks are best friends just like Bra and Pan. Probably even more friends than Bra and Pan due to being fusees.

Yeah, Goku doesn't love his wife as much? Pretty much bs there. Why would he decide to have a second kid her during the 10 days of peace or whatever? Goku then left because he essentially shouldn't every be able to come back to life. The Dragonballs and Elder Kai are lawbreakers. And when Goku went with Uub to train, he probably decided to just go back home after a month or two and used the smart way by ITing to Uub's place.

And yeah, I don't even see why the anime is being considered canon. Base Vegetto ROFLstomping Buuhan is not canon. As Leon said, the true sequel to DBZ manga is DBO.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Leon on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:43 am

Goku loved his family as much as he could, and a great deal at that.

But he's a giant man-boy, so he isn't quite capable of the same -kind- of love you traditionally see in relationships.

And no, that's not the reason Goku stayed dead. Goku stayed dead because he thought that all earths threats were coming because of him, and because he had passed the role of protector onto Gohan.

Goku was -never- comfortable being the worlds hero. He doesn't have the personality to want, or to take seriously, that kind of responsibility placed on his shoulders. Look at the Cell Games. FPSSj Gohan was probably stronger than Cell right after his fight with Goku, but Goku gave him a Senzu.

Vegeto is an entirely new person created from Goku and Vegeta. Mixed in him, you have:

Goku:

Loved his wife in a man boy way.
Family will always come second to fighting. (Again, this is not a crack against Goku. This is because of the way his personality is designed.)
Loved his son. This was actually closer to a father son thing than his relationship with Chi-chi, but even here it falls short of what would be expected in a healthy relationship.
Spent a grand total of 6 years of his life with his wife.
Has basically been Bulma's best friend since he was 5.

Vegeta:

Lusted after his wife for years, was in a reluctant relationship for many more in which he grew to love them in a character and personality defining manor.
Family finally came first...to the point where he even tried to convince himself that it wasn't true with the whole Majin thing...and even that Fizzled.
Loved his son, albeit reluctantly at first.
Spent 3 years as probably fuck buddies with his wife, then seven years slowly growing into true love with his family.
Hates Chi-Chi.

These traits mixed in Vegeto probably comes up something like:

Fully capable of a relationship with a women possessing an adult mentality about it.
Family comes first, but he's going to have his fun first. (IE, Vs. Brolly. He knew after Brolly passed his SSj2 strength, the -massive- 4x boost of SSj3 would be enough to take care of him, so his family was never in any real danger. Buu, on the other hand, represents a clear threat with this stunt of his and Vegeto is dealing with it accordingly.
Would love his kids, from both Goku and Vegeta. Fairly clear both sets of children consider him a father.
The mix of Vegeta's status of Bulma's emotionally repressed lover / husband with Goku's oldest friend mentality would very like result in what we like to think is the ideal relationship between them, and would most certainly win out over Goku's different kind of love coupled with Vegeta's loathing of Chi Chi.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:44 pm

i don't remember vegeta hating chi-chi. when did he state that? he found her annoying sure (lots of characters thought that)

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Re: Fanboys

Post  Leon on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:51 pm

True. Looking back, that might just be from the Anime.

Even so, I'd say Vegeto would probably have what equates as true love for Bulma, while if anything would just be mild lingering and slightly confusing feelings for chi-chi.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Buster on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:12 pm

I can understand his hatred for Chi-Chi. She's always been one of those things that boggle my mind when considering DBZ.

Back in good ol' DB, she was fine, a low-significance character that really played no real role until the end. Adult Chi-Chi was fine, kind of overbearing, but I was still able to live with myself know the fact that Goku married this girl (back of my mind, it should've been Bulma).

Then came DBZ.

And how I hate that woman. Seriously, how could Goku continue to live with that woman? She's shrewish, completely retarded ("Gohan's studies are more important than saving the world!"), and possibly maybe the worst wife for Goku. Ever. Any other woman on the face of the planet would realize that what Goku does is way more important than fucking anything. At least she kinda chilled out at the end of Z, but she's also old.

Everyone knows that before Vegeta, Bulma had repressed feelings for Goku, thinking that she had made the wrong choice with Yamcha. I'm not sure if the feelings were reciprocated... Goku's kind of naive. But I don't see it being so farfetched with Vegetto ending up with Bulma.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:54 pm

goku always viewed bulma as a friend. and thought she and yamcha belonged together


and fun fact even at the end of Z, chichi was still younger then bulma (3 years younger) goku is 4 years younger then bulma. vegeta is a year older then bulma
i always always disapointed, when chichi apeard in the saiyaman saga, and her hair bangs on the side where gone. plus the clothes where uglier then her previous costume.



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Re: Fanboys

Post  Leon on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:58 pm

Wait...

Goku was already a fair portion younger than Bulma, and then he was dead for 7 years. I don't think that quite works.

Originally, actually, Bulma and Goku were supposed to hook up. Toriyama changed his mind towards the last Budokai.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Mrperson0 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:09 pm

Yeah, I see what you mean. But couldn't Kibitokai just give him his pair of earrings so the two women could fuse? It could be used as a thank you to the strongest person in the universe and help make his life a but less complicated. As for the Earth, the Bulchi fusion could say she looks much different now due to some random experiment, like her husband does.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  Docter KillJoy on Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:25 am

Leon wrote:Wait...

Goku was already a fair portion younger than Bulma, and then he was dead for 7 years. I don't think that quite works.

Originally, actually, Bulma and Goku were supposed to hook up. Toriyama changed his mind towards the last Budokai.

true, goku being dead a few times. does screw up the whole age difference thing

but tecnicly (without counting him being dead)

at the end of dbz (or could of been gt)
goku 52
chichi: 53
krillin: 53
gohan: 33
goten: 21
trunks: 22
bulma: 56
yamcha: 56
tien: 56
vegeta: 57


add the fact that saiyans tend to be in their prime far longer then humans (nappa for example was already in his 50s when he came to earth with vegeta but still apeard to be around 30)
the women are in bad luck.


well a fusion of bulma and chi-chi true it could work. but i doubt they would agree with it. or perhaps vegetto didn't want it.
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Re: Fanboys

Post  crippknottick on Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:52 pm

Honorable Goku, the Monkey King.
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Re: Fanboys

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