Snubbed Characters

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Snubbed Characters

Post  Buster on Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:16 pm

One thing that's always bothered me in Z is that Toriyama grooms specific characters to become the main hero once Goku leaves. The first two that come to mind are Gohan and Goten.

For Gohan, it seems like the entire first part of Z is setting him up for his role as the hero-son-of-Goku that will eventually take up his mantle as protector of the world. This all leads up to his fight with Cell and Goku's sacrifice. Gohan is now the strongest, and Goku leaves the world in his protection.
But...
For whatever reason, we fast forward to high-school Gohan who is weak, rusty, and kind of a moron. Way to go kid, you followed your father's last request to be the protector of Earth javascript:emoticonp('Rolling Eyes'). Seriously, this never should've happened. Yes, Gohan doesn't like to fight, but he has enough honor and common sense to know that it's all gonna be up to him if some powerful baddie shows up. In short, he ignores his father and becomes mental. It's all kind of an unfair treatment to what this character -should've- been like, something like Future Gohan.

Goten in the Buu saga is said multiple times to be like a young Goku (hell, his hair is the same!), said to be extremely strong, etc, etc. Also, he seems to love to fight, unlike Gohan. So we all know that, someday, Goten will likely uphold his father's position as protector. It just makes sense!
And yet, in the god-awful ten years later scenes, he's shown to be kinda whiny and more concerned about girls than training... He should've been training like Goku, but yet he for some reason has his role snubbed for (drum role) Uub?!
Facepalm.

Another character is Piccolo... what was one of the most badassington characters becomes a gag in the Buu saga...
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Docter KillJoy on Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:59 am

it's not toriyama's fault.

he wanted to stop dbz after freeza. studios en fans wanted more.
then he wanted to stop dbz after cell, with gohan realy becoming the new protector. studios and fans demanded even more. and they demanded goku returns and be the star

goten was never considerd a new succesor. as a kid he was retarded and as a teen he seemed more like a stoner.

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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Buster on Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:03 pm

Stoner Goten? I see potential in this... Very Happy
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:36 pm

Goten and Trunks' High-Flying Adventure: the two get stoned and wake up on New Namek, with no idea how they got there. Or where their ship is. Or whether or not they used a ship to begin with. And so, they go on a mission to find the spaceship. Which eventually changes into a mission to find the dragonballs. Which eventually leads to the discovery that, during the previous night, Earth was invaded by the remnants of Freeza's forces, which they promptly defeated, commandeered, and took for a joyride to New Namek, where they were ditched.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Leon on Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:57 pm

Goten and Trunks go to white castle, which in DBZ is actually a planet that produces these burgers rather than a chain of restaurants.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Docter KillJoy on Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:57 am


glorious lol!
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Rage on Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:32 pm

I'm pr etty sure that Toriyama went abit down hill after the Cell Saga to show his publishers that he was getting sick and tired of it. I'm sure his wife once asked him to continue it, it was either after Cell or Freeza and as you could see with DBGT after 5 episodes he gave the studio the finger and left.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Docter KillJoy on Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:32 pm

actualy the reason all kinds of crazy shit happend in the buu saga. was already toriyama giving everyone the finger.

the only involvement he had with gt. where some sketches nothing more.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:00 am

well i love buu saga and dont like gohan or goten. so imo it was pwnage. the lame sons of goku fail and goku finds a real successor in uub.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Docter KillJoy on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:26 am

funny again then that in gt he calls vegeta the new protector of earth (after he leaves ontop of shenlong) geek


it's a shame that piccolo became useless in the buu saga. he was always one of the most badass characters
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:35 am

if you remember, thats the fans fault. no one wanted piccolo as the majin warrior. they wanted goku vs vegeta.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:12 pm

Speaking of which, in the story mode of Shin Budokai, Piccolo actually does get taken over by Babidi with the Majin curse.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Leon on Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:43 pm

Happens in Super Sonic Warriors also. He kills Babidi and makes Buu his minion. ^_^

As seen with the two Human henchmen, Majin was supposed to give a gigantic power boost. It seems like it got switched from Piccolo to Vegeta sometime between their appearance and the event itself, and had to be taken back a notch.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Buster on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:30 pm

That would've been kinda sweet. I hate how Piccolo becomes Goten and Trunks' (and Gotenks') bitch.

Majin Piccolo versus Gohan? That could've been a cool fight.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:17 am

that would have been a glorious fight. to see piccolo beating the shit out of gohan.

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Majin Piccolo?

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:41 pm

I wonder when the decision, and previous fan protest, was made for Vegeta to go majin and not Piccolo?

looking at how Vegeta died [Ki release suicide; turns to ash/stone] and how Piccolo was neutralized [turned to stone; later trunks broke him] perhaps a Majin Piccolo would have been a better fit.

Piccolo's emo rage: why he wants to be like he was before.
1. Goku killed his father.
2. Gohan made him soft, and die, even if he wished him back.
3. Goku saved Namek, not Piccolo.
4. Absorbed Nail because of Gohan, and threat of Freiza.
5. Absorbed Kami because of Nail, and threat of Cell.
6. Has hated Vegeta for, Nappa killing him, his attack on namek, and replacing him as Goku's Rival.

IMHO the Majin Seal looked strong enough to put someone that PL was weaker than Gohan SSJ1 to a PL comparable to Goku's SSJ2. Those humans were considered lower than Videl before there majin boost.

as for snubbed characters in DBZ... Try the ones who were first seen in DB... Upa is a little younger than Goku, lives below Korin's tower, and his father is incredibly strong [for a human anyway; maybe yajurobi strong] yet with his desire to get strong and climb korin's tower too we never here from him again. Yamcha basically stops trying after getting curb stomped by a saibaman and later an android; his most significant part of DBZ was loosing his girl friend to the main villain of the sayain saga who happened to become the strongest warrior by the android saga thanks to her help. We learn this by the arrival bulma's kid from the future coming to prevent Goku's death because, unlike yamcha, he mattered.

Uub makes sense as the next protector; Goku wished him back knowing he was the greatest opponent he ever faced and trained him because his kids didn't want to be the ones protecting earth.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Leon on Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:22 pm

Piccolo is shown to have a similar growth rate as Goku. While he probably didn't train as hard as Goku or Vegeta during those 7 years, unless he slacked off a hell of a lot I'm showing him being slightly stronger than SSj Gohan, but weaker than RSSj Gohan.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:31 pm

hmm... point taken. also

7. had Gohan trained with him during the 7 years [even if only twice a month] he would have possibly maintained his RSSJ fighting strength, while Piccolo could have improved even further.

Wink i was looking for 7 emo reasons that Piccolo would want to go majin.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Leon on Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:59 pm

Doesn't need to want to, you just need evil in your heart and the idea was that Piccolo still wasn't 100% pure.

Now, why he would dominate Piccolo when even without being pure because I'm sure both Vegeta's power and Evil are a radiating sun next to the namek's... I dunno. Would be nice to see Akira's original reasoning. Maybe in the original he tried to dominant Vegeta, and instead of "I want to fight Kakaroto" his response was instead "Fuck you."

Also, I'm using my DBM numbers for that, I dunno if the same holds true for my projections on DBZ. I'd have to go double check.

Using DBM numbers, a Gohan that continued to train would wind up like: (using DBM growth rates)

(100%)SSj3 Goku > RSSj2 Gohan > SSj2 Gohan > RSSj Gohan > Majin Vegeta = SSj2 Goku > SSj Gohan = SSj2 Vegeta

RSSj2 / SSj2 Gohan probably could have finished off Buu when he first popped out, even if he powered up to the level he was when he beat up Majin Vegeta. After that though... SSj3 is just to large an obstical to overcome with SSj2, even rage boosted, in 7 years.

But. If he -also- got mystic, then:

SSj Vegeto > (71%) M Gohan > (71%) Buuhan
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:18 am

Well, if Vegeta was spat upon instead of Piccolo he would have been the statue. unless Base Vegeta had a reaction time faster than Piccolo.

also, I figure Piccolo could have resisted if he wanted too so actual reasons to want the seal should come into play.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Leon on Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:56 am

Stone makes sense. I was reaching with Vegeta fully resisting. It seems like if you have a driving obsession stronger than Babidi's will that will play out.

*taps chin* I'd say that obsession for Piccolo would be Gohan. Maybe he hates Goku for being selfish and missing from Gohan's life for the vast majority of it and letting him get the fuck kicked out of him during the Cell games.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:08 am

interesting thoughts guys. maybe majin piccolo should have been in dabura/fat buu's universe in dbm.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Docter KillJoy on Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:36 am

Leon wrote:

But. If he -also- got mystic, then:

SSj Vegeto > (71%) M Gohan > (71%) Buuhan

how the heck would mystic gohan be stronger then buuhan (who has gohan absorbed)

don't you mean gotenksbuu?
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:17 pm

I think he means...

a alternate Gohan who maintained his access to his cell saga RSSJ1 and RSSJ2 for 7yr [through light training] and then got the elder kaioshin's boost would be stronger than the Buuhan that absorbed the Gohan that did not retain access to his cell saga RSSJ1 and RSSJ2 for 7yr [from not training] but then got the elder kaioshin's boost.
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Re: Snubbed Characters

Post  Leon on Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:19 pm

Right. ^_^
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Re: Snubbed Characters

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