Pan

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Pan

Post  Leon on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:08 am

Just watched the Bojack movie, and re-read the Bojack fight with pan, and re-read Gohan's fight with Cell.

I'd say:

Henchmen: .85
Cell Jrs: .9
SSj Gohan: 1
Perfect Cell: 1.1 (holding back)
Bojack: 1.15
SSj Pan: 1.2
Perfect Cell: 1.38 (Full)
Transformed Bojack: 1.45
SSj2 Gohan: 2
SPC Cell: Stronger
RSSj2 Gohan: Even Stronger
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Re: Pan

Post  Docter KillJoy on Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:48 pm

seems about accurate. but zangya (for example) fought evenly with fssj gohan (same as the other crew members)

it's hard to say if u16 pan is/was at that point already stronger then gohan was.

bojack is weaker then cell for sure. even broly was stronger then him.
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Re: Pan

Post  Leon on Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:54 pm

Well. We can't say that with certainty.

Manga wise, Cell, Holding Back > Non-enraged FPSSj Gohan.

Gohan then enraged / SSj2, Cell goes full power and gets thrashed.

Bojack kicked the living fuck out of FPSSj Gohan, so Bojack > Cell holding back.

Gohan went SSj2, and beat the hell out of Bojack.

The difference is so vast between SSj2 Enraged gohan and Bojack / Perfect cell that there's no way to tell. I'm just giving bojack the benefit of the doubt. (Specifically, giving him the benefit of the doubt that his transform isn't just for show. *shrugs* it might be.)

But, in DBM, it really seems like Pan puts up a much better fight than FPSSj Gohan did against Bojack, so I'm willing to say she's stronger than FPSSj Gohan and Base Bojack.

This -is- assuming Bojack is still at the same strength. If he's stronger, then Pan and his DBM version gets thrown off this chart to way higher and it's just Cell game numbers. >_>
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Re: Pan

Post  Buster on Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:58 pm

You're right, when dealing with such a power difference, it's almost impossible to tell.

However, maybe there's one piece of evidence...

A punch from SSJ2 Gohan puts Cell in quite a lot of pain, enough to drop him to his knees (full power Cell). On the other hand, one punch from SSJ2 Gohan rips a hole right through suped up Bojack. In this case, it looks like Cell is much more resilient.

In a Cell vs. Bojack match, I'd give it to Cell. Cell is a bit craftier, and has the healing factor to boot. Plus, since Cell has hinted that he's stronger than the Cell games, he's probably got the power advantage too.
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Re: Pan

Post  Leon on Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:11 pm

Yeah. I give transformed Bojack the edge in raw power, but Cell is a better fighter, more intelligent and has regeneration.

Cell wins the fight. Bojack isn't powerful enough to overcome the differences in everything else.
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Re: Pan

Post  Docter KillJoy on Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:19 am

difference in his fight with gohan was also. that gohan was holding back, was doubting himself (as he always does) this weakens him.

bojack needed his powerd up form to handle ssj vegeta (and the others)
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Re: Pan

Post  Leon on Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:27 am

Gohan wasn't holding back in the Manga. he was a little weaker than Cell though.

Bojack beat up Vegeta before he transformed. Truth be told, I have no idea why he bothered. He already had knocked the prince around, and he randomly went ahead and changed.
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Re: Pan

Post  Buster on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:45 pm

OK, so Bojack is indeed fighting Cell in the next round of the DBM tourney. This could settle the argument of "who's stronger" between Cell and Bojack, Gohan and Pan.

My best guess is that Cell going to again hold back his power against Bojack (like he did against Dabura), but still knock the living bajeezus out of Bojack.
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Re: Pan

Post  Leon on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:47 pm

Well. That's the thing. If they're stronger than they were, it settles nothing. ^_^
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Re: Pan

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:56 pm

Just to clarify: you guys are arguing about Perfect Cell, not Super Perfect Cell or DBM Cell, right?
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Re: Pan

Post  Buster on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:01 pm

Well, they are going to fight in DBM at some point, this is for sure.
Maybe I should break this down.

Perfect Cell vs. Bojack: Cell wins. Regeneration and stuff. Bojack could be stronger, but still...

SPC vs. Bo: Cell wins. Hands down.

DBM Battle: Leon brings up a good point about them getting stronger. However, Cell has hinted that he's a LOT stronger, and Bojack looks pretty much the same. I wouldn't really expect him to train, but he might more likely take in the spoils of his conquests. Cell probably goes around fighting and killing people in his universe. At any rate, I give this one to Cell as well.
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Re: Pan

Post  Leon on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:21 pm

Right. I'd say Transformed Bojack > PC, but PC's superior technique and regeneration wins the fight.
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Re: Pan

Post  Buster on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:38 pm

As for Pan and Gohan, I'd say they're about equal if anything. Actually, it's kinda hard to tell.

For the Pan/Bojack fight, she caught him off guard with her sudden powerup and rush. I think initially, Bojack was holding back somewhat in his first form. She looks like a young girl, it would seem to him that he wouldn't need to fight very hard. It was her sudden attack that surprised him, and that's why he didn't counter or defend. Also, her attack really had no effect on him anyways, so it's hard to say how strong it was, given that we saw no effect. And then he kills her immediately. At least Gohan and the others managed to stay alive for more than 30 sec.
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Re: Pan

Post  Leon on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:46 pm

Yeah, but Bojack's 1st and 2nd form isn't more than a 20-25% increase. Odds are, SSj Pan was a little stronger than base bojack, and a moderate amount weaker than transformed bojack, which places her a little stronger than the SSj Gohan that fought Bojack.

Again, assuming this Bojack is the same strength. If he's stronger, pan is definatly stronger than SSj Gohan of the Cell games.
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Re: Pan

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:25 am

to be honest bojacks transformed form doesn't seem that impressive. even with what he showed in movie 9 and in dbm

bojack is like freeza. someone that doesn't train because he believes himself to be the strongest.
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Re: Pan

Post  Leon on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:34 am

Yeah. Like I said, it's like, 20-25% increase.

Like...

Bojack transform! Power x 1.2
Kaioken x2 Power x 2
SSj Power x 50


Compared to all the other transforms / power boosts in the series, it kinda sucks. ^_^
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Re: Pan

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:08 am

bojack transformed in dbm seems kinda impressive since he beat pan straight away. i think he will need to go all out vs cell and will still fail. depending on future events, and cell saying he is able to get stronger as the tournament goes on, he might let bojack pound him to get the power boost.
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Re: Pan

Post  Docter KillJoy on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:19 am

he needed to transform to handle a novice super saiyan.
cell could beat him with 1 arm tied behind his back.


he could like you suggested allow bojack to trash him abit, and then after getting a healing from the varga's get a zenkai from that.
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Pan's PL

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:44 am

in hind sight...

Bojack beat [end of Cell saga] Vegeta without needing to transform but apparently needed too against Pan. Noting how she lost, Pan was not in his league once he did... If Cell didn't hold anything back with Goku imho he could have done the same thing.

Pan is likely somewhere between Goku SSJ1 from Cell saga and Vegeta SSJ1 from Buu saga [pre-majin seal]
her skill though reminds me more of Freeza saga Goku [pre-SSJ1]

I doubt Bojack would improve significantly, particularly in DBM, so he is IMHO comparable to Dabura and P.Cell
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Re: Pan

Post  Docter KillJoy on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:00 pm

true he already was stronger then vegeta. but still he transformed and then beat him.
I doubt he ever had to face a strong opponent before.

even when he fought ssj1 gohan he relied more on his henchmen using those power draining wires.
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Re: Pan

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:08 pm

Meh. From what I could tell, Pan got her hits in because Bojack underestimated her and failed to take her seriously. After that, Bojack transformed because he was angry that Pan had managed to hurt him, not because he really needed to transform in order to win.
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Re: Pan

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:17 am

he needed to transform to handle a novice super saiyan.
lolwut? shes probably been ssj1 for at least 3 years. a novice would mean she turned ssj1 for the first time a year before the vargas arrive.

he wasnt relying on his henchmen. he just didnt want to do all the work.
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Re: Pan

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:52 am

there is a difference between a newbie and a novice.

a novice means that she still needed training. it's obvious she was not a full power ssj. evidenced by the fact that after a few attacks she was already breathing heavily. specialy after shooting the ki blast on bojacks back.

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Re: Pan

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:03 am

She probably was, but got tired fast as she put everything she had into an impossible fight against a much stronger opponent. I would say it was like Goku shooting his IT kamehameha. Obviously Pan is weaker, but she did the same thing. tried to end the fight in one kamehameha.
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Re: Pan

Post  Buster on Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:42 pm

Well, it really doesn't matter how strong she is because she won't be seeing anymore opponents in the tournament. However, I think her power is best used to determine an estimation of Bra's power level, which is broken down into two camps:

1. "zOMG bra is teh strngest!!!11!"

or

2. "Fuck no, Goku could kick her ass!"

Probably said this already, but considering how Bra and Pan have the Goten-Trunks kind of friendship bond (due to being related and probably around the same age), we can infer somewhat about her power. Goten and Trunks were about the same level given that they were constantly play-fighting, and the same kind of training/fighting probably went for Bran and Pan. This would point towards Bra and Pan being somewhat similar in power (Bra is probably stronger due to being older). However, we know that Bra trained with Vegetto too, so she gets extra experience from that.

Recently, Salagir has been making a bunch of statements about slow power growth and limiting power caps. This is turn seems to promote Gohan as the strongest unfused person due to him having access to the highest potential in series. This kind of cap means that no unfused persona is going to be stronger than Gohan (see where I'm going with this?). Even though Bra is the daughter of Vegetto, she is an unfused half-saiyan and will not be stronger than Gohan.

Numbers:

Goku SSJ cell saga: 5
Goku SSJ buu saga: 8
Goku SSJ3: 32
Chou Gohan: 40

Pan SSJ: 4.8 - 6.5 (again, it's hard to say exactly)
Bra SSJ: 7.5 - ?? < 40

I give Bra 7.5 for two reasons: 1. She hasn't had SSJ as long as Goku had for Buu 2. Going with the Goten-Trunks :: Pan-Bra argument.

Some might say that it's too weak... she punched off Zen Buu's head...
So? Gohan kicked Buu in half, and we all know that Zen Buu is much greater than Gohan, so that point is moot. Besides, Buu wasn't too serious or worried when Gohan and Bra arrived, so he's probably toying with them. And who knows? Maybe it's part of his plan...
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Re: Pan

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