the power of the super namek

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the power of the super namek

Post  Syrias on Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 am

hey all, thought id recycle an old post of mine, to start discussing how strong the super namek could be.

here goes:

well the supernamek should be really strong for the following reason (which is my opinion)

nail fusing into piccolo lifted the resulting namek to over 1.000.000 in power.

nail had about 42.000 in power levels.

piccolo when dying had about 3.500. he likely got to about 4.500 in the few days he had at king kais planet (based on how much power goku got in a year, which is not that accurate but works for this assumption, since we will never know the exact numbers)


now how did he get to just over 1.000.000?

piccolo X nail or piccolo + nail doesnt work


42.000 X 4.500 =189.000.000 , which is higher than goku went when he became SSJ. doesnt work.

42.000 + 4.500 = 46.500 , doesnt work either because he would be far to weak to battle freeza second form.

piccolo fusing with nail has to have a multiplier of sorts involved. or a static power boost whenever a namek fuses with a namek. i think ill go with a multiplier (feel free to go with a 900.000 static boost on top of multiplying nail with piccolo, in a reply to this, if you want Very Happy)

so we have piccolo and nails power added up (because thats what happens in my opinion.) this has to be multiplied in order to reach 1.000.000+

46.500*X=1000.000 (rounded to just the million for the calculation)

X would be about 21 in this case.

the question that is left is, "does every namek fusion do that?" my answer is "probably, but maybe the potency of the multiplier varies a little. the namek elder said piccolo fusing with kami would result in a warrior that could beat freeza easily. this leads me to believe the fusion of kami and piccolo alone would have been equal to namek ssj goku or at least near him. that would imply the multiplier for piccolo and kami becoming one again would be really great of a number. (kami around kid gokus level if im not mistaken + piccolos 4.500... going to 1.000.000 or even 150.000.000? high multiplier O.O) piccolo fusing with nail mostlikely only had a "normal" multiplier which in would have to be applied to ALL namek fusions, maybe varying between 15 and 21 (actually i think its more in the range of 19 to 22 but whatever) for fusions that are not "1 namek that split up becoming one again".

if im not mistaken, there are 108 nameks on namek when freezas troops start killing people.
Nail is one of them. 107 left.

now even if nail is the only one with a high power level and all others are about 5 to 10 (which isnt the case as evidenced by the namek warriors wo appear to fight freezas troops. if nail were so much above them, they would just look to him to be their planets unbeatable superman. also there is guru, who has to have al ot of ki, which in turn would be "power levels" once a warrior namek gets it.) it would look like this if he fused with every single one of them

Nail:x
Namek he fuses with: y
varying multiplier:z

(x+y)*z

ok, first namek is fused into nail

(42.000+10)*15= 630.150

second namek is fused into nail(fused)

(630.150+10)*15= 9.452.400

third namek fuses into nail(fused)

(9.452.400+10)*15= 141.786.150


were close to namek ssj goku now and there are still 104 nameks to go, one of which is guru who is guaranteed to have a higher power level (ki energy actually) but we will disregard him.

the endresult of the mass fusion, if all 107 nameks had a power of 10 only and the multiplier would be "only" 15 would be

29.182.653.906.962.400.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000

i dont think there even is a word for that number. now even if most nameks would only give 1 power level and the multiplier was 5 instead of 15... he would still be ridiculously strong:

25.885.268.824.542.200.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000

now lets compare vegetto to that (to get an idea how strong bra should be, since she has to be about his ssj in power, as the manga and novel are indicating)

for this we may assume that by the time they fuse, both goku and vegeta reached about 150.000.000 (gokus ssj on namek) in base power, i for one think that is to much but lets go with it anyway. i dont want to come off as "pro namek/anti bra" here)

now some guide that is widely accepted says potara and dance fusion is "AxB"

so here we have 150.000.000x150.000.000=22.500.000.000.000.000

base vegetto:22.500.000.000.000.000
ssj vegetto: 22.500.000.000.000.000x50=1.125.000.000.000.000.000

now i assume that vegetto never had a useful training partner until bra was old enough and as such did not greatly increase his power (other than unlocking ssj2 and ssj3, which he might have had in the buu arc already, that part is uncertain). i think that is logical.

so for bra, this means her ssj is somwhere in the range between

22.500.000.000.000.000 and 1.125.000.000.000.000.000. thats all we can say, since all we know is that she overpowered vegettos base, forcing him to go ssj against her.

now... neither

22.500.000.000.000.000

nor

1.125.000.000.000.000.000

can compare to

25.885.268.824.542.200.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000


if you want, i can try calculating the super namek with (A+B)+static boost of around 900.000 for all the 108 nameks. i think ill do that now.

now with every namek (other than nail) only having 1 power (which is silly) and the fusion giving (a+b)+900.000

we get :96.342.107 that guy cant even beat final form freeza. not even talking about cell and buu. or DBM Broly (since that Broly likely existed in most universes).

i think the multiplier for the fusion is more likely. but its also evident that salagir as a writer has not spent his time thinking up power levels but actually goes the toriyama route of "i do it the way i need it in the story to make it interesting" instead of "there are rules for all things that happen in the manga".



what do you think of my huge wall of text?

Very Happy
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Kalkarot-El on Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:40 am

I admit you have a very good point, there's really know getting around to the increase but, your forgetting about the Freeza event it self.

Took a little (not much) into what you said & thought the only way super namek wouldn't be crazy powerful as your numbers suggest is if freeza killed some of them.

I really don't think the namekians just up & fused, Freeza would just kill some right after landing, so most of the more powerful ones at least tryed to fight Freeza only to fail, afterwards the last weak namekians fused with a very few low powerful nameks still left.

This combined with the fact there were only a few to begin with, So the question is how many low powerful namekians & normale namekians were left & did Piccolo or Nail make it into the mix, also did he fuse with Kami on earth.

There is know telling until "The Namek" fights or more info is released, which ever's first.

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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Syrias on Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:17 am

yeah, i, too, think that the super namek is not all 108 nameks fused. it would make sense to have him be all the warrior nameks and their leader, nail. so maybe ten nameks total. otherwise he would be just too strong.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:27 pm

since all we know is that she overpowered vegettos base, forcing him to go ssj against her.



who said she forced him to use ssj? he could of opted for it from the start to increase her training.
and even if she forced him to use ssj. there is still no proof wether or not he whent all out or held back a great amount (like using only 20% of his full ssj power)
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Syrias on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:45 pm

huh?

this is a thread about the super namek. not bra.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Pikuhan vs Piccolo on Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:27 pm

hmm... here is one line of thought you may not have considered...

Goku 1st died while notably weaker than Radditz [1200~1500] and it took him quite a bit of that year to travel snake way. Conversely Piccolo, was at least twice Radditz strength when he died [3000 plus], had more intense training [according to his a Tien's thoughts], and spring partners [the other three]. When Nail saw Piccolo he was surprised/impressed by ho strong he was. I think this implies he was stronger than Nail... significantly so. Freiza also suggested his 1st forms PL [530,000] to Nail while [iirc] Nail claimed he could feel the true depth of Freeza's power to Piccolo. Piccolo would easily be stronger than what Freeza used to defeat Nail [1% of 530,000 = 53,000 and 1 handed] comparably scaled to his 1st form.

this is to suggest...

Nail= 42,000 [pwr unlocked by guru]
Piccolo weights= 300,000 to 800,000
Piccolo serious= 330,000 to 880,000
Piccolo fused= over 1,000,000,000 [me thinks 1.2~1.5 mil when serious]

I tend to think Nail's unlocked pwr [via guru] had an effect on Piccolo while Piccolo's other world training effected the PL he received from Nail.

but ANYWAY...
A good number of the nameks likely died before the fuse took place [as motivation to do so] while the elder could have died in part from Freeza's actions before Piccolo could be wished back too. If Nail was the strongest [42,000] it makes sense that he would be the base. Perhaps all potential dragon types [ie egg makers] were killed too... that would leave little hope for a future generation.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Docter KillJoy on Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:33 am

most of piccolo's training in the saiyan saga and on king kai's planet. was not training his body.
but meditating.

i think the only time he actively trained by fighting was with goku and gohan, preparing for the androids.
the other times, he spend mostly meditating.

so how much by meditating alone did his power increase then
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:05 am

the new page shows him admitting vegetto and broly are stronger and that he just wants his wish. i think super namek might fight bra in the finals Smile
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Docter KillJoy on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:20 am

thats if she survives it until the finals Razz
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:14 am

who can beat her? unless she fights zen buu or vegetto, which is unlikely, nothing can stop bra in the second half of the table from getting past at least the 3rd round
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Docter KillJoy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:53 am

super namek Razz
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Syrias on Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:53 am

stop trying to make this a bra thread, resident bra lover.

from salagirs newest post, i take that all the calculations here are completely moot.

salagir said

Piccolo fused with piccolo, whatever the fusion is (namek absorption, dance, potalas), will be exactly as strong as the author wants it.
He will be stronger or weaker than the SuperNamek or Vegetto or only Gohan, as the author wants.


this has me heavily disappointed. i dont like the "its my work, i do what i want" stance at all. there are points in which you cant avoid it, true. but stuff like the fusions and potara and so on has enough data given out to fashion some set of rules for it. and those rules should then be used instead of "i do it like i want it". salagir is basically saying "if i decide to have goku stronger than a fusion of all other warriors present, then it is the case. i dont need any proof or reasoning. if i decide he is the strongest, then he is."

this takes any fun in discussion away for me, since i dont want "i like the character, so i guess he/she is strongest" as a basis. i want to be able to do some research and calculations and then find the most "likely" (not "one, true") answer.

meh... new im sad again.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Mrperson0 on Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:58 am

Yeah, I hate the fact he's going on what Dragonball is all about and is restricting the power level growth for Goku and Vegeta. They've been stated to still be in their prime, Goku was the strongest on Earth in the 10 years after, and in the last page, Goku says they'll keep on training to keep on getting stronger.

Sometimes, that's the sucky part about great fanfics like this.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Leon on Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:18 am

He didn't set a hard cap. They still get stronger from training, just not at the ridiculous rate most of us attribute to DBZ.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:01 am

Syrias wrote:stop trying to make this a bra thread, resident bra lover.

from salagirs newest post, i take that all the calculations here are completely moot.

salagir said

Piccolo fused with piccolo, whatever the fusion is (namek absorption, dance, potalas), will be exactly as strong as the author wants it.
He will be stronger or weaker than the SuperNamek or Vegetto or only Gohan, as the author wants.


this has me heavily disappointed. i dont like the "its my work, i do what i want" stance at all. there are points in which you cant avoid it, true. but stuff like the fusions and potara and so on has enough data given out to fashion some set of rules for it. and those rules should then be used instead of "i do it like i want it". salagir is basically saying "if i decide to have goku stronger than a fusion of all other warriors present, then it is the case. i dont need any proof or reasoning. if i decide he is the strongest, then he is."

this takes any fun in discussion away for me, since i dont want "i like the character, so i guess he/she is strongest" as a basis. i want to be able to do some research and calculations and then find the most "likely" (not "one, true") answer.

meh... new im sad again.
I hate to point out the obvious, but Salagir is the author. He has been doing what he wanted with the story the whole time. And so far, he's kept it pretty true to the original manga. No characters have acted way out of their established characters, no major plot holes have been created, and when the Broly stories were rewritten, they were made to fit within the storyline far better than the original movies did. Salagir has done a great job with Dragon Ball Multiverse so far. Have a little faith.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:04 am

stop trying to make this a bra thread, resident bra lover.
hey its what i do Razz
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Docter KillJoy on Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:19 am

I would laugh hard if zen buu wins the tournament and takes u16 bra with him. to be his wife/slave.
then she will be forced to make food for him constantly Laughing

--------


As for the super namek's first opponent, i hope it is either king cold or Radditz.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:45 am

pretty sure she would die before that happens...

and not only that but you want to make raditz be useless yet again. cmon make it raditz vs king cold. then it would probably be an equal fight, not a boring super namek curbstomp.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:46 am

Raditz? Vs. King Cold? When he can't even go SSJ? And King Cold may only be in the second stage of his transformations? How is that even? Unless Raditz manages to pull of a SSJ transformation, he won't even be able to put up a fight!
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Syrias on Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:20 am

hyper, youre not getting my point.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Docter KillJoy on Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:26 am

Ussj Future Trunks wrote:pretty sure she would die before that happens...

and not only that but you want to make raditz be useless yet again. cmon make it raditz vs king cold. then it would probably be an equal fight, not a boring super namek curbstomp.


hypocrite Razz

you don't want the super namek to get easy fights.
but you want u16 bra, to get easy opponents so she will move through the ranks.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:03 pm

Syrias wrote:hyper, youre not getting my point.
I don't think I did, as you've done a good job of making your point very clear. Salagir has stated that, as the author, he can make any character as strong as he wants. With that decision, he decided to make Gohan remain the strongest unfused character, make characters have diminishing returns in regards to their power growth, and has made The Namek weaker than many fans feel he should be. You're angry about these decisions, and feel that Salagir should change them while he can, since these decisions haven't actually influenced the comic yet. You also seem to think that Salagir is on a power trip and fear what else he might change.

I'm saying sit back and watch. I think Dragon Ball Multiverse will turn out great regardless of these decisions. Salagir and Gogeta Jr. have done a great job so far. If they hadn't, you wouldn't be worried about the future of DBM because you wouldn't still be reading it.

That said, if I did indeed miss the point, go ahead and fill me in on what the point is.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Ussj Future Trunks on Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:55 am

Raditz? Vs. King Cold? When he can't even go SSJ? And King Cold may only be in the second stage of his transformations? How is that even? Unless Raditz manages to pull of a SSJ transformation, he won't even be able to put up a fight!
power levels are what salagir says they are. raditz has oozaru and king cold may or may not be in second form. i doubt he is in second form (what possible reason would he have to be in second but not first or final?), but i also think he didnt show his 100% full power against trunks. and raditz may become so angry at falling behind his brother and losing to king cold, that he transforms during the fight. dont forget, even ssj goku had trouble with 100% frieza and raditz has at least 30 years to train his base form.

hypocrite you don't want the super namek to get easy fights.
but you want u16 bra, to get easy opponents so she will move through the ranks.
how is that hypocritical? more like i dont like super namek so i dont want him to have it easy. if broly was actually in the tournament, would i want him to have incredibly easy fights? no. no i wouldnt.

bra is in a hard fight right now. she deserves an easy one when she returns.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Hyp3rB14d3 on Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:53 am

Yes, Salagir can make the characters whatever power he wants. That said, so far he's kept all of his decisions justifiable. That, in conjunction with his earlier statement that since SSJ is a 50 times multiplier, humans and saiyans will be unable to match it without some sort of boost and the fact that King Cold is stronger than Frieza are enough to make the outcome of that fight pretty clear. Raditz would have to be over five times as strong as Goku was on Namek to even have a chance with Oozaru, and that's assuming King Cold can't transform further. Without SSJ, Raditz would be thoroughly screwed.
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Re: the power of the super namek

Post  Docter KillJoy on Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:03 pm

Ussj Future Trunks wrote:

but you want u16 bra, to get easy opponents so she will move through the ranks.
how is that hypocritical? more like i dont like super namek so i dont want him to have it easy. if broly was actually in the tournament, would i want him to have incredibly easy fights? no. no i wouldnt.

bra is in a hard fight right now. she deserves an easy one when she returns.


if zen buu actualy decides to fight serious, she will end up absorbed or dead.

---

as for the namek, he should be very strong and not piss weak just because salagir wants u16 to look good.
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